Priority Polls – Scout & Soldier

TF2 Tightrope is about to re-launch. TF2 Beta is not being used. It’s time to hear your opinion on which item changes should be prioritized.

TF2 Tightrope is a project that aims to be a community-run alternative to the official TF2 Beta. We decided to start it to supplement the (in our eyes underused) TF2 Beta.

We don’t want to dictate what items will be changed. We want the community to tell us. What item tweaks should be tested?

And in case after we played with the changes we realize they shouldn’t be kept, good! They can be removed. We can then experiment with different changes but have gained valuable knowledge and first-hand experience.

Please try to spread these polls to everyone you know who cares about the state of TF2. It will be very interesting to see the results. Maybe even Valve will react to it and change the prioritized items in the real TF2 Beta!

Are they over- or underpowered, have bugs or just a broken concept in general: which are the items you would like to see changed first? (You may select up to 3 each.)

Which Scout items should be changed first?

  • Winger (49%, 549 Votes)
  • Soda Popper (30%, 338 Votes)
  • Sun-on-a-Stick (23%, 257 Votes)
  • Baby Face's Blaster (12%, 136 Votes)
  • Fan O'War (11%, 122 Votes)
  • Force-A-Nature (10%, 107 Votes)
  • Shortstop (9%, 105 Votes)
  • Milkman Set (9%, 100 Votes)
  • Flying Guillotine (9%, 96 Votes)
  • Atomizer (7%, 80 Votes)
  • Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol (7%, 77 Votes)
  • Wrap Assassin (6%, 63 Votes)
  • Boston Basher (5%, 57 Votes)
  • Crit-a-Cola (5%, 56 Votes)
  • Sandman (4%, 45 Votes)
  • Bonk! Atomic Punch (2%, 26 Votes)
  • Candy Cane (2%, 26 Votes)
  • Mad Milk (2%, 25 Votes)
  • Scattergun (2%, 21 Votes)
  • Bat (2%, 19 Votes)
  • Holy Mackerel (2%, 17 Votes)
  • Pistol (1%, 15 Votes)

Total Voters: 1,122

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Which Soldier items should be changed first?

  • Liberty Launcher (35%, 382 Votes)
  • Cow Mangler 5000 (34%, 369 Votes)
  • Mantreads (24%, 261 Votes)
  • Concheror (17%, 184 Votes)
  • Battalion's Backup (14%, 150 Votes)
  • Escape Plan (13%, 138 Votes)
  • Beggar's Bazooka (12%, 128 Votes)
  • Equalizer (11%, 123 Votes)
  • Tank Buster Set (10%, 109 Votes)
  • Reserve Shooter (8%, 88 Votes)
  • Righteous Bison (7%, 76 Votes)
  • Black Box (7%, 73 Votes)
  • Market Gardener (4%, 44 Votes)
  • Gunboats (4%, 43 Votes)
  • Pain Train (4%, 43 Votes)
  • Direct Hit (4%, 40 Votes)
  • Disciplinary Action (3%, 35 Votes)
  • Shovel (3%, 28 Votes)
  • Half-Zatoichi (2%, 27 Votes)
  • Rocket Jumper (2%, 25 Votes)
  • Buff Banner (2%, 22 Votes)
  • Original (2%, 20 Votes)
  • Rocket Launcher (1%, 13 Votes)
  • Shotgun (0%, 2 Votes)

Total Voters: 1,091

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Also see: Priority Polls – Pyro & Demoman

Thank you for participating! Please check back in a few days for the next set of polls!

51 thoughts on “Priority Polls – Scout & Soldier

  1. I can see that some people are already complaining about the Escape Plan.

    I still wonder how people can consider that more imbalanced than a weapon that changes the entire flow of a game under the guise of “teamwork”.

    • Escape plan changes the flow of the game a lot.
      European roamers can be less aggressive because the EP is banned.
      Roamers are the ones that create advantages.
      —-> flow of game changed

      • Disciplinary Action affects the flow of the game much more by allowing Mr. Anti-Air FUN to get there at normal speed without any cost to his team.

        Escape Plan allows for higher aggression but isn’t always going to be successful when you do attempt to use it. Can’t say the same for the team crutch.

        Oops, I mean, team kajicrutch.

      • Yeah, but last I checked, a Heavy does it a lot better.

        Mr. Anti-Air FUN..

        Maybe Mr. Anti-Fun.

        Whatever.

        Engineer is just annoying to Scouts and I don’t want to talk about your damnation of the Gunslinger.

        I’d rather talk about the bullshit argument that the Escape Plan is stupidly overpowered and the Disciplinary Action is balanced.

      • Well, isn’t the point of this to test potential changes and determine what, if any, changes are needed? So wouldn’t hotly debated weapons in fact be good choices? It’s why I voted for both.

      • Yes, it would, but the only problem with the Escape Plan is that players suck so much that they can’t kill a low health Soldier so they put the blame on the weapon and not themselves. It’s goddamn ridiculous that people consider the easier to counter weapon more of a problem than the weapon that slows down games by using “teamwork”.

        9 people out of 229 people, Alen. NINE.

      • It’s not Europe’s problem.

        It’s every single formats problem and the definition of power creep.

      • That I can agree with, but the DA is still much more broken than the Escape Plan/pre-split Equalizer has ever been.

      • I think the biggest issue is that the by changing the melee items, for a class with two other great weapons, into utility items, you create almost a straight upgrade. Because the soldier doesn’t currently pick a melee item based off the damage output said item does, he is free to pick the melee item that provides the most utility. What would make more sense is to make a significantly damage reduced shotgun that speeds up your teammates forcing you to choose either a reduced total damage output load out with a bit more utility over the already high damage output and low utility vanilla load out. ATM there is no real reason to not pick a melee that gives you extra utility. You don’t really loose anything by picking it up. That’s why the gunboats were in my opinion such a better item (more utility for a significant total dps handicap)

  2. I don’t get it, why are Cow Mangler and Liberty Launcher at the top of the list? There’s nothing wrong with them!

    • Well as long as they have top priority we will need to at least discuss them. Then we can figure out what change most people want and try it out – we don’t have to keep it if it turns out to be bad after all

      • Well… I guess it’s a matter of opinion, but the way I see it, the cm5k is basically a rocket launcher with slower reload speed, that deals less damage. Sure a charged shot disables a sentry for a few seconds, but that ability requires great teamwork and communication, something a lot of players fail to do.

        Also, i dont really care for the infinite ammo thing… as long as you know your way around the map, ammo won’t be a problem.

      • About the charged shot requiring teamwork, what i meant was that teamwork and communication was needed for it to be fully effective

      • Right… Forgot about that. I suppose, that makes it usefull in some scenarios, but i still think its slightly UP

        It used to be pretty usefull (slightly OP perhaps) until they nerfed it

      • well the community is split everytime we talk about the cm5k. half the people think its OP, half think its UP. It most likely wont get a straight nerf.

      • I thought it was OP before they released all the specific changes it has. Partly due to not knowing all the changes. Partly due to me gawking at the 100+ damage the charge shot does along with the burn damage. Partly due to me not having it to experience how exposed you are when you pull off that charge shot. Now that I own it, I don’t think it’s OP at all. It’s an antipersonnel weapon over anti-sentry, which soldier normally fills.

      • This is precisely why it doesn’t need to be changed. If half the people think it’s UP and half think it’s OP, it must be balanced.

      • By this logic, as long as half the people are okay with an CoD sniper rifle, then its balanced.

      • The reason CM5k is so bad is because it has many quirky, pointless and just basically stupid stats – 5% slower reloading speed? Come on…
        And that extra rocket doesn’t change anything, because you can’t be critboosted – and it makes this weapon borderline useless…
        And Liberty Launcher – it’s just a crutch, period. We’ve talked one too many times about why it is bad and we all know it IS bad.

  3. I personally think that the mantreads and the gunboats should be merged, that would certainly bring it closer to “balanced”

  4. I really hope the Escape Plan gets some fix, the whole problem with the weapon before it was split was the speed boost, now its still basically the same problem.

    You want speed? Fine, just not roughly scout speed.

    Its sad that some people cant even play soldier without that thing.

    • It’s also sad that some people can’t shoot a low-health Soldier with his melee out.

      The Escape Plan is really a huge problem when compared to fighting a Heavy who got to some place he shouldn’t have because of “teamwork”. Oops, I forgot that people are okay with the Disciplinary Action being power creep for “teamwork”.

      • Disc. Action is still pretty OP, its just it requires 2 people to use which means its effects arent as apparent in normal games.

      • To be fair, the troubles concerning the Equalizer have been around since the soldier update, and the disciplinary action sees comparatively zero use in normal games where it’s problems would come to light, so I can totally see why everyone harps on about the Escape Plan over the DA.

        If we fix the EQ/EP/whatever-the-hell, then people can shift their focus to things like the DA.

      • There was no Soldier update :P
        But yea, the split didn’t solve anything, really – people still use it (almost) solely for escape purposes.

        Also, the old Equalizer didn’t feel OP – sure, it outclassed other melees, but wasn’t OP and I didn’t feel too bad when I killed/got killed with it. UNLIKE THE LIBERTY LAUNCHER.

  5. I’m amazed that the Half Zatoichi has gotten so few votes. Okay, admittedly, it’s worse on Demomen/knights, but it’s pretty bad.

    • This is a priority poll and not a list for all the weapons that need a change. You can’t put a melee weapon that is mostly used for Demoknights anyway over the many imbalanced or even broken Soldier weapons.

      • Well, there really aren’t any broken Soldier weapons in a positive way. Only stuff that needs to be buffed. Like the Cow Mangler is way underpowered, and the Mantreads are near useless unless you are on a map like hightower. It should have a fall damage reduction is what it should have.

  6. Any reason why people think the Bat doesn’t need changing? It’s literally the most underpowered Scout item in the game.

    • I believe with the scattergun and the pistol at one’s disposal, the only time a scout should use the batis via trolling or humiliation kills, the other weapons are just so much stronger

    • But it has no downside. No self-damage, no damage reduction, no health reduction, no fire vulnerabilities….how is that underpowered?

  7. I had an idea.

    MANTREADS STATS :
    +80% max primary ammo
    / When healed by a medic :
    / +50% faster reload time
    / -75% reduction in push force taken from damage

    GUNBOATS STATS :
    -60% blast damage from rocket jumps
    Deals 3x falling damage to the player you land on

    • Sorry for not expanding my post, but here it is =p :

      First off, the Winger needs a complete overhaul. Not only ’cause it is underpowered, but because I can’t find any purpose to this weapon that would make it redeemable. The Pistol is simply superior on every level.

      For Soldier, the Mantreads also need a overhaul, because the whole “damage on stomp” thing is a pretty poor concept for a Shotgun replacement. I’d move the falling damage attribute to the Gunboats -in addition to the reduced rocket jump damage- and remake the Mantreads so the Medic can pocket the Soldier ; kinda like the horns, but instead of rage buff, it’s healing buffs that activate when the Soldier is either overhealed, or being healed by a Medic, or both. The buffs in question are Heavy push force reduction, and faster reload time.
      Also, forget about the max ammo bonus, I think it’ll make the Cow Mangler even less useful.

  8. My decisions were tough to call… I think people miss some very fun and interesting formats of TF2 by ignoring weapon’s stats for specific game-types. Like the poster that said “the only reason scout should be using bat is for humiliation”. What about in melee only games? I know right now we only have that stupid castle, but I would hope one day melee could be expanded. Beyond that there’s also randomizer where melee tends to be used more often both as a tradition, and sometimes because the assortment of weapons is just totally impractical.

    Ultimately though, I picked Boston Basher over Bat, because the penalty is far too extreme. Boston Basher should instead do something like “bleed damage when inflicted upon wearer is increased by +100%.” There’s enough bleed weapons in the game for this to matter, and it’s overall less ridiculous then missing and killing yourself rapidly.

    Obviously The Winger needs upgrading. It’s just a slower, sloppier pistol. I also nominated Mad Milk simply because I don’t think the pitiful HP it returns is enough to mean anything. It’s no sandvhich.

    For soldier, I focused entirely on his horns… because all the horns are terrible and ask far too much of the player. If the player had the skill or luck necessary to activate his horns, he wouldn’t need them to begin with. Horns should be something you use when your team isn’t picking up the slack. Say for example;

    BUFF BANNER.
    +Charges the horn by 25% everytime a teammate dies.
    +When used, for seven seconds all players on team get mini-crits.

    If your team sucks, the buff banner gives you something back for your trouble. Perhaps making them suck less… as opposed to “let’s make the rich richer” mentality of games.

  9. Winger needs either a damage boost, or more bullets in the clip.

    Flying Guillotine does a tad too much damage up front. Then again, people have got used to it now.

    The concheror and the battalions backup require too much damage to activate, and do not last long enough. Change one of those for both weapons, and I would be happy.

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